TL;DR: Fix monitor height first (Ergotron LX, $180-220), then keyboard position (3M tray, $180-200), then switch to vertical mouse (Logitech Lift, $60-70). Skip standing desks until basics are right. Total: $400-500 for 60-70% pain reduction in 2-3 weeks.
I’ll be honest—I spent two years reviewing flagship smartphones, premium headphones, and cutting-edge wearables while my own workspace was slowly destroying my posture. The irony hit me during a product launch event in San Francisco when I couldn’t turn my head more than 45 degrees to the left. A chiropractor later told me what I’d been ignoring: my “tech-forward” setup was ergonomically medieval.
That wake-up call sent me down a rabbit hole of testing every desk accessory claiming to improve ergonomics. Over the past 18 months, I’ve cycled through monitor arms, keyboard trays, footrests, and enough standing desk converters to furnish a small office. Some made immediate, measurable differences. Others were expensive placebos. What surprised me most? The accessories that helped weren’t always the ones with the most impressive spec sheets—and the order you implement them matters more than most buyers realize.
Here’s what I learned from transforming my workspace into a genuinely ergonomic environment, backed by real-world testing, physical therapy consultations, and way too many hours measuring screen heights with a tape measure.
Why Ergonomic Accessories Matter More Than Your Chair
Most people obsess over finding the perfect office chair—I did too. Testing chairs ranging from $200 to $1,400, I was convinced the right seat would solve everything. But here’s what three different ergonomic specialists told me during assessments: your chair is only 30-40% of the equation.
The positioning of your keyboard, mouse, monitor, and feet creates a kinetic chain that affects your entire musculoskeletal system. A $1,000 chair can’t compensate for a monitor positioned too low or a keyboard that forces your wrists into constant extension.
Tracking Real Results
During my testing period, I tracked discomfort levels using a simple 1-10 scale throughout workdays. Adding a proper monitor arm dropped my end-of-day neck tension from a 7-8 down to a 3-4 within three days. The chair change I made a month earlier? Barely moved the needle past a 6.
The reason is straightforward: your body adapts to whatever position you maintain for hours. Accessories that support neutral postures—where joints aren’t forced into extreme angles—reduce the cumulative strain that leads to repetitive stress injuries, chronic pain, and long-term mobility issues.
The Monitor Arm That Changed Everything
Monitor positioning became my starting point because it’s the most impactful single change you can make. After testing seven different arms over four months, the truth became clear: if your monitor isn’t at proper eye level, nothing else matters.
What I Tested
My primary test subject was a 27-inch Dell UltraSharp U2723DE (6.8 kg with stand removed). Testing also included a 32-inch BenQ PD3220U (11.2 kg) and dual 24-inch Asus ProArt displays (4.1 kg each) to understand weight capacity limitations across different use cases.
The standout performer was the Ergotron LX Desk Mount. It’s not the cheapest option at around $180-220 depending on configuration, but it’s one of the few I tested that maintains position under load without drift. The gas spring mechanism supports 3.2-9.1 kg, and critically, the tension adjustment actually works consistently—I could set it once and have it stay positioned correctly for weeks.
Real-World Performance Details
What makes a monitor arm actually useful in daily use comes down to several factors:
Height range: The LX offers 33 cm of vertical travel. Sounds boring until you realize this accommodates everything from sitting at standard desk height (72-76 cm) to standing positions (100-110 cm for most users). At 178 cm tall, I needed nearly the full range when switching between sitting and standing throughout the day.
Rotational freedom: 360-degree pan and ±75-degree tilt proved essential during testing. This meant I could reposition the screen for video calls (tilted 10-15 degrees upward to meet camera angle), then quickly return to my preferred reading position (5-8 degrees downward tilt for comfortable eye angle).
Cable management: Integrated channels kept DisplayPort and USB-C cables organized. Minor feature, but after two weeks of testing, this proved surprisingly important—loose cables create resistance that affects smooth adjustment.
The Positioning Protocol That Actually Works
Ergonomic guidelines suggest the top of your screen should be at or slightly below eye level when sitting upright. In practice, I found the ideal position through trial and error:
- Sit naturally in your chair (not forced-upright posture you can’t maintain)
- Close your eyes and face forward
- Open eyes—your gaze should land on the address bar of a browser, roughly 5-8 cm below the top screen edge
- Position the monitor 50-70 cm from your eyes (arm’s length)
Measuring these distances with a tape measure during initial setup, I then validated with a cervical angle measurement app (using my phone’s gyroscope). Maintaining a 15-20 degree downward eye angle reduced my end-of-day neck pain by roughly 60% within the first week.
What Didn’t Work
Budget arms under $60 universally failed in testing. The AmazonBasics monitor arm ($45) couldn’t maintain height under the 6.8 kg Dell monitor—it would slowly sink 2-3 cm over a 6-hour work session. Meanwhile, the HUANUO model ($55) had so much rotational resistance that adjusting it required two hands and risked knocking over my coffee.
The high-end Humanscale M8.1 ($420) performed flawlessly but costs more than twice the Ergotron with minimal practical benefit for single-monitor setups. That extra $200+ bought smoother glide and slightly more refined cable management, but didn’t improve ergonomic outcomes.
Keyboard Positioning: The Detail Most People Get Wrong
After fixing monitor height, I expected immediate relief. Instead, I developed wrist pain within a week. The problem? My keyboard was still on the desk surface, forcing 15-20 degrees of wrist extension every time I typed.
The Keyboard Tray Reality Check
Four keyboard tray systems ranging from $35 to $280 went through my testing process. The uncomfortable truth: most desks are 2-5 cm too high for proper keyboard placement. Standard desk height is 72-76 cm. Optimal keyboard height for most users is 60-70 cm when sitting, which creates the neutral wrist position ergonomists actually mean when they say “straight wrists.”
The 3M Adjustable Keyboard Tray (AKT180LE, around $180-200) solved this after two other products failed. Mounting under the desk, it provides:
- 18 cm of height adjustment range
- 360-degree swivel (useful for gaming sessions where I prefer a slight angle)
- 27-degree tilt adjustment for negative slope positioning
- Mouse platform extension that stays level while the keyboard tilts
Testing Methodology & Results
A goniometer (medical angle measurement tool) helped me measure wrist extension angles in three positions:
- Keyboard on desk surface: 18-22 degrees extension (red flag territory)
- Keyboard on cheap tray (Halter model, $35): 10-15 degrees extension (better, but still strained)
- Keyboard on 3M tray with negative tilt: 0-5 degrees extension (target range)
Hand fatigue showed dramatic differences. Typing approximately 8,000-12,000 words daily between reviews, emails, and documentation, my hands felt noticeably fatigued by 3 PM before the keyboard tray. After proper positioning, that fatigue point shifted to 6-7 PM, and the intensity dropped from a 7/10 to maybe a 3/10.
The Negative Tilt Discovery
Here’s something I didn’t expect: negative keyboard tilt (where the space bar is slightly higher than the function row) made a bigger difference than the height adjustment alone. Most keyboards naturally slope upward from front to back—the opposite of what your wrists want.
Testing involved both a Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard (built-in negative slope) and a standard mechanical keyboard (Keychron K8) on the adjustable tray. The negative tilt setting (approximately 7-10 degrees downward) allowed my forearms to stay parallel to the floor while my wrists stayed neutral. Typing this section right now, my wrists are completely straight—something that was literally impossible with my previous setup.
What Didn’t Work
Keyboard risers that sit on your desk (raising the keyboard higher) are ergonomic disasters. Testing the Rain Design mStand for keyboards ($40), I thought elevation might help. Everything got worse—now my wrists were bent and raised, creating dual strain on the carpal tunnel area.
Gel wrist rests without addressing keyboard height are also Band-Aids on broken bones. Three different gel rests (ranging from $12-35) went through testing, and I found they can reduce pressure points, but they don’t fix the underlying extension angle problem. They’re useful additions after you’ve corrected positioning, not instead of it.
The Mouse Situation: Vertical Changed My Life
Dozens of mice for gaming and productivity content have crossed my desk over the years. Never had I seriously considered that mouse design itself could cause physical problems—until I developed tennis elbow from prolonged mouse use during a particularly intense review season.
Understanding Pronation Strain
When you use a traditional mouse, your forearm is fully pronated (palm facing down). This twists the radius and ulna bones, creating sustained tension in your forearm muscles. It’s not a problem for 30 minutes, but after 6-8 hours daily for months? Your forearm muscles are essentially in a prolonged isometric contraction.
Testing this theory involved measuring my forearm circumference (using a cloth tape measure) at the start and end of workdays over two weeks. With a traditional mouse (Logitech MX Master 3S), my forearm showed visible swelling—approximately 0.5-0.8 cm increase in circumference by 6 PM. A vertical mouse in a handshake grip kept that measurement consistent throughout the day.
The Logitech Lift Test
The Logitech Lift Vertical Ergonomic Mouse ($60-70) positions your hand at a 57-degree angle—between fully pronated and neutral handshake position. After testing it alongside four other vertical mice, it struck the best balance between ergonomic benefit and usable precision.
Real-world performance:
- 4,000 DPI optical sensor (adjustable in 200 DPI increments)
- ±2 cm accuracy at normal tracking speeds across a SteelSeries QcK+ mousepad
- 24-month battery life claim (I’m 8 months in with 47% remaining according to Logitech Options+ software)
- Supports both Bluetooth and Logi Bolt wireless receiver (useful for switching between work laptop and desktop)
The learning curve was real. For the first three days, my precision dropped noticeably—tasks like selecting small UI elements or highlighting text took more attempts. By day five, I was back to normal accuracy. Week two arrived, and I honestly forgot I was using a different mouse style.
What About Trackballs?
The Kensington Expert Mouse Wireless Trackball ($90) underwent six weeks of testing. In theory, it eliminates arm movement entirely—you manipulate the ball with your fingers while your hand stays stationary.
Ergonomic benefits were legitimate. My shoulder tension (which I tracked using the same 1-10 scale) dropped from a 6-7 down to a 3-4 within two weeks. The problem? Precision work became frustrating. The 55mm ball has noticeable inertia, making micro-adjustments harder. For writing and web browsing, it was excellent. Detailed image editing or precise cursor placement in complex UIs had me constantly reaching for a conventional mouse.
My current solution: trackball for general use, vertical mouse when precision matters. Both stay on my desk for easy switching.
Standing Desk Converters vs. Full Standing Desks
Testing standing solutions, I assumed they’d be transformative. Reality was more nuanced.
The Fully Jarvis Bamboo Standing Desk
The Fully Jarvis (72″ × 30″ bamboo top, $700-800 with electric frame) has served as my primary desk for 14 months. Three-stage legs provide height range from 62 cm to 127 cm, covering virtually any sitting-to-standing need.
Measured stability: At full standing height (109 cm for my preferred position), I measured lateral wobble using a bubble level app while typing aggressively. Maximum deflection was 1.2-1.8 mm—noticeable if you’re looking for it, but it didn’t affect usability or cause monitor shake with the monitor arm attached.
Real-World Usage Patterns
Despite having a full standing desk, I don’t stand nearly as much as I expected. My actual pattern over 4 weeks of tracking showed:
- Sitting: 68% of time
- Standing: 24% of time
- Transition/breaks: 8% of time
The value isn’t standing all day—it’s the option to stand when I want. Long video calls? Standing works better for me. Reading long documents? Standing keeps me alert. Deep focus coding? Sitting allows better concentration. The ability to change position on demand reduced my lower back discomfort more than the standing itself.
The VIVO Standing Desk Converter Test
Before committing to a full desk, the VIVO height-adjustable standing desk converter ($160) went through three months of testing. Sitting on top of your existing desk, it raises your workspace 5-50 cm via a gas spring mechanism.
Limitations discovered:
- Weight capacity: Rated for 15 kg, but stability degraded noticeably above 10 kg (laptop + monitor + keyboard + coffee mug pushed limits)
- Desk space: The 90 cm × 40 cm footprint consumed most of my 150 cm desk, leaving minimal space for notebooks or reference materials
- Adjustment friction: After 6 weeks of daily use, the gas spring required increasing force to raise/lower, eventually needing two hands
Where it worked: As a testing platform before investing in a full desk, it was valuable. Learning that I do actually use standing positions regularly (contrary to my expectations) justified the larger investment. For temporary living situations or rented offices where you can’t replace furniture, converters make sense.
The Anti-Fatigue Mat Question
Three anti-fatigue mats went through testing, assuming they’d be essential for standing work:
- CumulusPRO Commercial Grade ($80, 60 cm × 90 cm, 2 cm thickness)
- Ergodriven Topo ($100, contoured surface with varied height zones)
- AmazonBasics anti-fatigue mat ($25, 50 cm × 80 cm, 1.5 cm thickness)
Results: The Ergodriven Topo provided the most measurable benefit, but not how I expected. Its contoured surface (featuring terrain-like bumps and valleys ranging from 0-7 cm height) encouraged constant micro-movements—shifting weight, adjusting foot position, flexing different muscle groups.
Standing duration before fatigue set in showed clear differences:
- No mat: 35-45 minutes before wanting to sit
- Flat mat (CumulusPRO): 50-65 minutes
- Contoured mat (Topo): 75-95 minutes
The difference comes from encouraging subconscious movement versus static standing. However, the $75 price difference between the Topo and AmazonBasics mat didn’t feel justified until I’d been using standing positions regularly for 2+ months.
The Accessories That Surprised Me
Footrest: Small Accessory, Big Impact
The Humanscale FR300 Foot Rocker ($65) seemed like ergonomic theater when I first tested it. Just a curved platform you rest your feet on, right?
Wrong. When sitting, most people’s feet don’t reach the floor properly if their desk and chair are set at correct heights for their arms and eyes. Dangling feet or reaching for the floor creates pressure behind your thighs, restricting circulation.
Measuring the impact used a pulse oximeter on my calf before and after adding the footrest. After 2 hours of seated work:
- Without footrest: SpO2 in calf tissue dropped to 94-95% (mild circulation restriction)
- With footrest: SpO2 maintained at 97-98% (normal range)
Leg fatigue showed noticeable differences—without the footrest, I had the urge to stand and walk around every 45-60 minutes. With it, comfortable sitting extended to 90-120 minutes without restlessness.
Document Holder: The Forgotten Ergonomic Tool
The Fellowes Desktop Copyholder ($25) came into my setup on a whim during testing. Holding reference documents at the same height and distance as your monitor, it reduces the need to look down at papers on your desk.
Impact measurement used my phone’s gyroscope to track head position. Results showed I was flexing my neck forward 25-35 degrees roughly 15-20 times per hour when referencing printed materials on my desk. With the document holder, that dropped to 5-10 degree flexion only 3-5 times per hour.
For anyone who works with printed references, contracts, or source documents regularly, this $25 accessory made a disproportionate difference.
Monitor Light Bar vs. Desk Lamp
The BenQ ScreenBar Halo ($150) is an LED light that clamps to the top of your monitor, illuminating your desk without creating screen glare. Testing it against traditional desk lamps (including an architect-style LED lamp) revealed measurable differences in eye strain.
Using a lux meter app calibrated against a professional meter, I measured lighting across my work surface:
- Traditional desk lamp: 180-450 lux (varied by 150% across desk)
- BenQ ScreenBar: 380-420 lux (±5% variance)
Even illumination reduced the contrast between my screen brightness and surrounding workspace. End-of-day eye strain tracking used a simple “how tired do your eyes feel” scale:
- Before ScreenBar: 7-8/10 tired, occasional headaches
- After ScreenBar: 4-5/10 tired, rare headaches
The $150 price feels steep for what’s essentially a fancy LED strip, but it’s one of the few accessories where the benefit appeared within the first day of use.
What Didn’t Make a Difference
Ergonomic Keyboards (Sometimes)
Four split ergonomic keyboards underwent testing, expecting significant improvements:
- Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard ($60)
- Kinesis Freestyle Pro ($175)
- Ergodox EZ ($325)
- Moonlander Mark I ($365)
The truth: These only helped after I’d fixed keyboard height and angle. Before adding the keyboard tray, switching to an ergonomic keyboard shape made minimal difference—my wrists were still extended, just in a different configuration.
After establishing proper height/angle, the Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard reduced ulnar deviation (sideways wrist bend) from about 8-12 degrees down to 3-5 degrees. More expensive split keyboards offered more adjustability, but I couldn’t measure additional ergonomic benefit that justified the 3-6× price increase for my use case.
Blue Light Glasses
Three different blue light blocking glasses (ranging from $25-120) underwent testing, expecting relief from digital eye strain. After 6 weeks wearing them 6-8 hours daily, measurements showed no meaningful difference in:
- End-of-day eye tiredness (still 7/10)
- Sleep latency (time to fall asleep)
- Sleep quality (measured via Oura Ring sleep tracking)
Research on blue light glasses is mixed at best, and my personal testing supported the skeptics. Proper monitor brightness, room lighting (see ScreenBar above), and the 20-20-20 rule (every 20 minutes, look at something 20 feet away for 20 seconds) made far more difference.
Posture Corrector Devices
Two wearable posture correctors (one vibrating sensor, one elastic brace) entered testing, thinking they’d reinforce good habits. Both were uncomfortable enough that I stopped wearing them within 2 weeks. The vibrating sensor (Upright Go 2, $80) triggered false alerts constantly, and the elastic brace felt restrictive in ways that made me less likely to move naturally.
Building environmental cues (proper desk setup) proved far more effective than wearable reminders.
The Implementation Order That Actually Works
After 18 months of testing, here’s the sequence that maximized improvement while minimizing cost and adjustment burden:
Phase 1: Monitor Height (Week 1)
- Investment: $180-220 for quality monitor arm
- Impact: Immediate 50-60% reduction in neck strain
- Adjustment period: 2-3 days
Phase 2: Keyboard Position (Week 2-3)
- Investment: $180-200 for adjustable keyboard tray
- Impact: 60-70% reduction in wrist strain
- Adjustment period: 1 week to dial in settings
Phase 3: Mouse Ergonomics (Week 4-5)
- Investment: $60-90 for vertical mouse
- Impact: 40-50% reduction in forearm tension
- Adjustment period: 5-7 days for precision recovery
Phase 4: Supporting Accessories (Week 6+)
- Footrest: $45-65
- Document holder: $20-30
- Monitor light: $100-150
- Anti-fatigue mat: $80-100 (if using standing desk)
Phase 5: Standing Option (Month 3+)
- Investment: $160 for converter or $600-800 for full desk
- Impact: Mobility and positional variety
- Adjustment period: 4-6 weeks to establish sustainable pattern
Total investment for comprehensive setup: $900-1,400
Spread over 3-4 months to:
- Isolate what actually helps
- Adjust to each change before adding complexity
- Avoid sticker shock and buyer’s remorse
Common Mistakes to Avoid
❌ DON’T: Buy Everything at Once
This mistake happened in my initial approach. When you change six variables simultaneously, you can’t identify what’s actually helping. Plus, you’re less likely to properly configure each item when overwhelmed with new equipment.
❌ DON’T: Assume Expensive = Better
The $420 Humanscale monitor arm performed marginally better than the $180 Ergotron in my testing, but couldn’t justify the 133% price increase. Similarly, the $365 Moonlander keyboard offered more adjustability than the $60 Microsoft Ergonomic, but similar ergonomic outcomes for my needs.
❌ DON’T: Ignore Your Specific Body Dimensions
Ergonomic guidelines give ranges for good reasons—bodies vary. At 178 cm tall with proportionally long arms, my ideal monitor distance (65 cm) is further than recommended for average users (50-60 cm). Use guidelines as starting points, then measure and adjust based on your comfort and strain levels.
❌ DON’T: Set It and Forget It
Your ideal position changes throughout the day. Monitor height gets adjusted 3-5 times daily depending on task (reading vs. writing vs. video calls). Switching between sitting and standing happens 4-8 times. Rotation between vertical mouse and trackball occurs based on precision needs. Ergonomics is dynamic, not static.
✅ DO: Measure Before and After
Track specific metrics:
- Pain levels (1-10 scale) at specific times
- Range of motion (can you touch your chin to your chest comfortably?)
- Fatigue onset times (when do you first notice discomfort?)
- Productivity metrics (typing speed, error rates)
Without measurement, you’re relying on vague feelings and placebo effects.
✅ DO: Implement During Low-Stress Periods
Don’t overhaul your workspace the week before a major deadline. The adjustment period is real—expect 20-30% productivity loss for 3-5 days as you adapt to new positions and equipment.
✅ DO: Consult Professionals for Persistent Issues
Virtual consultations with two different ergonomic specialists ($150-200 each) involved reviewing photos and videos of my workspace. Both identified issues I’d missed and provided personalized recommendations that generic guides couldn’t offer. Worth every dollar.
Frequently Asked Questions
Q: How long before I notice improvement from ergonomic changes?
Based on my testing and physical therapy consultations: acute discomfort (like neck soreness from poor monitor height) improved within 3-7 days. Chronic issues (like carpal tunnel symptoms or persistent shoulder pain) took 4-8 weeks to show meaningful improvement, and some required 3-4 months for full resolution. Your body needs time to heal and adapt—ergonomic accessories prevent further damage while recovery happens, but they’re not instant fixes for existing injuries.
Q: Can I use ergonomic accessories with a laptop?
Yes, but laptops create inherent ergonomic compromises. The keyboard and screen are fixed together, so you can’t optimize both simultaneously. My solution: use the laptop as a second monitor (elevated on a stand to proper eye level), then add external keyboard and mouse at correct heights. Tested configuration: laptop on Roost Stand ($80), connected to keyboard tray and external display via USB-C. Works well but requires desk space for both screens.
Q: Is a standing desk worth it if I already have an ergonomic chair?
From my experience: standing desks aren’t about standing all day—they’re about positional variety. Four weeks of usage tracking showed standing for only 24% of my work time, but that mobility option reduced lower back pain by approximately 50-60% compared to sitting-only periods. If you can afford $600-800 and have chronic sitting-related discomfort, yes. Budget constraints suggest investing in monitor positioning and keyboard setup first—they have more impact per dollar.
Q: How do I know if my wrists are actually in a neutral position?
Physical test: place your hand flat on your desk with fingers relaxed. Your wrist is now roughly neutral (0-5 degrees extension). When typing, your wrists should maintain that same angle—no bending up, down, or sideways. Verification came through using a goniometer app (free on iOS/Android) that uses your phone camera to measure joint angles. Seeing 10+ degrees of extension consistently means your keyboard height or angle needs adjustment.
Q: What’s the most cost-effective ergonomic upgrade?
Based on impact-per-dollar across my testing: monitor positioning wins. A quality monitor arm ($180-220) provided the largest single reduction in discomfort relative to cost. If you currently use a monitor stand that came with your screen, an adjustable arm will transform your workspace more than any other individual purchase. The keyboard tray is a close second ($180-200) but requires more setup refinement to get right.
Q: Do I need different accessories for gaming vs. work?
Partially. Monitor arm, keyboard tray, and proper chair height apply to both. Where it diverges: gaming mice (like my Logitech G Pro X Superlight for gaming) prioritize precision and weight over ergonomics, which is fine for 1-3 hour gaming sessions but problematic for 8-hour work days. My solution: vertical mouse for work/general use, performance mouse for gaming. Dual mouse setup sounds excessive but solved the competing demands of ergonomics versus competitive precision.
Key Takeaways: What I Wish I’d Known 18 Months Ago
After testing dozens of accessories and tracking outcomes over hundreds of hours, here’s what matters most:
Position over products. The $1,400 standing desk and $800 chair couldn’t compensate for a monitor placed 15 cm too low and a keyboard forcing constant wrist extension. Fix positioning before buying expensive furniture.
Sequence matters. Monitor height → keyboard position → mouse ergonomics → supporting accessories → standing options. Each phase builds on previous improvements. Jumping to standing desks before fixing basic positioning wastes money and creates new problems.
Your body is the feedback loop. Specifications and guidelines are starting points. Measuring and adjusting based on actual strain levels beats following theoretical ideals. A 57-degree vertical mouse angle might be “optimal” for average users, but my forearm proportions work better at 62 degrees. Trust measured outcomes over marketing claims.
Iteration beats perfection. My monitor arm position has been adjusted 30+ times over 14 months. Keyboard tray mounting point relocation happened twice. Swapping between mice based on task demands is routine. Ergonomics isn’t a one-time setup—it’s ongoing refinement as your body, tasks, and workspace evolve.
Investment pays off. The comprehensive setup cost me about $1,100 spread over four months. That’s expensive. But considering two physical therapy visits ($180 each) and one chiropractic series ($400 total) happened before fixing my workspace, the accessories were cheaper than treating the injuries they prevented.
The tech industry loves talking about optimization—code efficiency, performance benchmarks, productivity systems. Your workspace is the foundation everything else runs on. When that foundation is causing cumulative physical damage, no amount of productivity tools or ergonomic theory compensates.
Start with monitor height. Measure the difference. Then build from there.
